The Republicans, Episode 9
Followers of Mystery Debate Theater know that I haven’t been able to convene the Mystery Debate team at Beachwood HQ recently and last night’s Republican fiesta in Florida was no exception. After all, a new episode of Celebrity Rehab With Dr. Drew was on, as well as an episode of Ocean Force: Huntington Beach called “Beach Blanket Bedlam,” whose highlight was the defiant perp who said “So take me to jail, I stole a volleyball!” One has to live a little.
But I’ve reviewed the transcript this morning because that’s how much I care about you, the reader. Here is what we might call a tape delay version of Mystery Debate Theater. Let’s give the Republicans their due.
As always, this transcript has been edited for clarity, space and sanity.
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MODERATOR BRIAN WILLIAMS: Governor Romney, the president just today signed off on this economic stimulus plan that would send out 116 million checks to American homes. The plan is somewhat contrary to yours. Are you disappointed that your recipe for the economy was not embraced by the president?
ROMNEY: Mine was a little different. It had a permanent tax cut for people at the lowest income tax bracket. I also have a savings plan for individuals that allows folks who are making under $200,000 a year to save their money tax free.
STEVE: Plus, I offered credit cards with no interest until July 1.
WILLIAMS: Senator McCain, will you support the part of this that does not make the Bush tax cuts permanent?
McCAIN: I think it’s very important that we make the Bush tax cuts permanent. I voted to make them permanent twice already.
STEVE: So obviously it’s not working.
McCAIN: If people and businesses and families in America are now planning their 2010 budget . . .
STEVE: They’re better people than me.
McCAIN: But I also would make sure not only that the tax cuts are made permanent, but we cut corporate income taxes.
STEVE: That’s called Below Zero Taxation. It was discovered along with string theory.
WILLIAMS: Mayor Giuliani, you’ve in the past supported a wide array of tax cuts. Do you think it’s a mistake that they’re not in this package?
GIULIANI: I think this package, for what it does, is okay, and I would support it, but it doesn’t go far enough. I think in the face of what’s been going on, which obviously is a matter of serious concern, we should be very aggressive.
STEVE: For example, I would tax squeegee men. And inadequate displays of patriotism.
WILLIAMS: Is it a problem for your campaign that the economy is now the most important issue, one that, by your own acknowledgement, you are not well versed on?
McCAIN: Actually, I don’t know where you got that quote from. I’m very well versed in economics.
STEVE: We have your college transcripts. Plus, your checking account is overdrawn.
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RUSSERT: You all have described yourself as tax cutters, and yet in your records there are shortcomings on that issue.
HUCKABEE: I know this: I balanced a budget every year I was governor. I left a surplus of $850 million coming up from a deficit of $200 million. I know I signed the first-ever broad-based tax cuts. And I know that I made tax cuts that really impacted families by eliminating the marriage penalty, doubling the child care tax credit, raising the income level at which people paid their income tax.
But let me speak to the really heart of what I think a lot of Americans are concerned about with the economy. And frankly, in talking about the stimulus package, one of the concerns that I have is that we’ll probably end up borrowing this $150 billion from the Chinese.
STEVE: So maybe we should adopt their economic system.
HUCKABEE: But if we’re going to spend $150 billion, I’d like to suggest that maybe we add two lanes of highway from Bangor all the way to Miami on I-95. A third of the United States population lives within 100 miles of that.
This nation’s infrastructure is falling apart. And if we built those lanes of highways – with American labor, American steel, American concrete – I believe it would do more to stimulate the economy.
STEVE: Then why not four lanes?
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RUSSERT: Governor Romney, do you trust Senator McCain and Mayor Giuliani on the issue of being tax cutters?
ROMNEY: We do have differing views, and over time our record with regards to taxes has been somewhat different. But I think all of us on this stage want to see taxes brought down and want to see spending brought down.
The Bush tax cuts helped get our economy going again when we faced the last tough times. And that’s why right now, as we face tough times, we need to have somebody who understands, if you will, has the private sector, has the business world, has the economy in their DNA. I do.
I spent my life in the private sector. I know how jobs come and I know how they go.
STEVE: And if I have to lay off a third of the American people to make my numbers, I’ll do it!
RUSSERT: Senator McCain, do you believe Governor Romney raising fees a quarter-billion dollars is equivalent to raising taxes?
McCAIN: Well, I’m sure the people that had to pay it did.
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McCAIN: But look, I voted on the tax cuts because I knew that unless we had spending under control, we were going to face a disaste. We let spending get out of control. We Republicans lost an election because of the bridge to nowhere and the fact that we presided over the biggest increase in the size of government since the “Great Society.”
But I’m going to stop the pork barrel spending, and we’re not going to have any more “Bridges to Nowhere.”
STEVE: Just a road to Bangor.
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WILLIAMS: Congressman Paul, should government have any role at all in stimulating the economy like this?
PAUL: They shouldn’t stimulate it by interfering in the market rate of interest. That’s where our basic problem comes from. And when you do that, you get into these problems, and then everybody wants to solve the problem by printing more money and spending more money and asking the Federal Reserve to, you know, lower interest rates.
STEVE: Is that code for blaming the Jews?
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WILLIAMS: Mayor Giuliani, next question goes to you. A story right out of the news over the last several days. Many big brand-name banks in this country – Merrill Lynch, Citigroup, to name two of them – have gone overseas, it’s been said, hat in hand looking for these cash infusions, up to $20 billion literally to stay afloat, looking for money from governments of Abu Dhabi, Japan, Korea, Saudi Prince Alwaleed, whose money you turned away in New York after 9/11.
The question is – and I know you know a lot of these people at Wall Street firms, the big New York banks –
STEVE: Is that code for the Jews?
WILLIAMS: – is there something, even though it’s money to say afloat, fundamentally un-American in what’s going on?
STEVE: What could be un-American about overextending our credit? What country has Brian Williams been living in? Or is that code for the Jews?
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RUSSERT: The Wall Street Journal and NBC News asked people all across the country in our poll today, “Which party would be better in dealing with the economy?” The Democrats had an 18-point advantage. With that in mind, and looking at the record over the last seven years, the unemployment rate in 2001 was 4.2; it’s now 5.0. The debt was $5.7 trillion; it’s now $9.2 trillion. There was a $261 billion surplus; there’s now a $250 billion deficit. Gas was $1.47 a gallon; it’s now $3.02.
Why should the American people continue a Republican in the White House with that kind of economic record?
STEVE: 9/11.
McCAIN: Because you can be sure, if you watch the Democrat debates, that they will increase spending, they will increase taxes, they will expand the size of government, and they will continue the spending spree which, to a large degree, the Republicans have greater responsibility.
STEVE: Didn’t he just get done talking about how much Republicans expaned government and spent wildly?
RUSSERT: Governor Huckabee, George Bush has been president since 2001. The Republicans controlled Congress for most of those years, losing control in 2006. With this economic scorecard, why should the American people keep the Republicans in charge?
STEVE: Because I’m a Christian?
HUCKABEE: I don’t think you can blame all of this on President Bush. The president also has done, I think, a fine job of making sure that the focus of his White House was also keeping us safe.
But let’s look at those economic issues. A few months ago, when we were all in Dearborn, Michigan, your network was the sponsor with CNBC and MSNBC, and every one of us were asked, “How’s the economy doing?” every one of my colleagues said, “It’s doing great,” and they gave all the numbers.
When they came to me, I know people acted like I was the only guy at the U.N. without a headset that night. But the truth is, I was the only guy on that stage who said it may be doing great if you’re at the top. But if you talk to the people at the bottom of the economy, the people who are handling the bags, the people who are serving the food, you get a very different picture, because their health care costs are up dramatically.
The cost to educate their children are up. And the cost of their fuel has way outstripped any wage increase they’ve had.
Now, often we hear people talk about trickle-down economics, that if you have a wonderful surge in the economy that it eventually works it way down to all sectors. But there’s another issue, too: there is a trickle-up impact when the economy begins to go sour. And if you pay attention to the people who are the single moms and the working people who barely get from paycheck to paycheck, you’d find out months in advance that this economy was headed for a downward turn. And that’s what I think people need in the president, is somebody who understands the totality of the American family and not just the folks at the top.
STEVE: Did a John Edwards speech accidentally get fed into the TelePrompter?
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RUSSERT: Governor Romney, higher deficits, higher debt, higher unemployment, higher gas prices. Is that the kind of Republican record you want to run on?
ROMNEY: What I’ll do is I’ll run away from the record of Washington.
You see, Washington is fundamentally broken. Washington has made promises to us over the last decade that they just haven’t been able to fulfill. You can go down the list. They said they’d solve the problem of Social Security; they haven’t. They said they’d rein in spending; we got all sorts of people — almost every congressman and senator says they’re going to cut spending, cut those earmarks, cut that — that mentality in Washington, but somehow every year more and more and more money goes in.
They said they’d live by high ethics. They haven’t.
They said they’d solve the problem of illegal immigration. They haven’t.
They said they’d get us off of foreign oil. They haven’t.
Issue after issue that’s been raised over the past couple – three decades have been – those have been spoken about, and Washington has failed to deliver.
RUSSERT: Both parties?
ROMNEY: Both parties. And change is going to have to begin with us, in our party. We’re the party of change. We are the party of fiscal responsibility, and when Republicans act like Democrats, America loses.
STEVE: I thought America lost when Democrats acted like Republicans.
PAUL: I think what we have to run on is an old-fashioned Republican program.
STEVE: Like hating black people.
PAUL: There was never my participation in this. I was waving a flag the whole time saying . . .
STEVE: I wish I was in the land of Dixie.
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MODERATOR PAUL TASH: Senator McCain, this question comes to us from William Harper of Bayonet Point, Florida. Our military leaders tell us that our Army is on the verge of breaking. And our economic experts tell us that we cannot sustain our economy due to deficit spending. Both tell us we cannot sustain our present efforts in Iraq.
You have stated that you would leave troops in Iraq for an indefinite period. How will you do this, both militarily and economically? Please, no generalities.
McCAIN: I know of no military leader, including General Petraeus, who says we can’t sustain our effort in Iraq.
STEVE: And by the way, you’ve got 24 hours to report, Tash.
McCAIN: If we do what Senator Clinton said that she wanted to do night before last, and that’s wave the white flag of surrender and set a date of withdrawal, then we will have expenses, my friends, in American blood and treasure, because al-Qaeda will then have won.
STEVE: Is “white flag” racial code?
WILLIAMS: Governor Romney, retired four-star U.S. Army General Barry McCaffrey is just back from one of his many trips, from Iraq, and has written a report that, an after-action report on his findings. This sentence stood out. The U.S. Army is too small and poorly resourced to continue successful counterinsurgency operations in Iraq and Afghanistan at the current level.
STEVE: But McCain just said he knows of no military leader who ways we can’t sustain our efforts . . .
WILLIAMS: The question, Governor, is, how do you double the size of it, from 400,000 to 800,000, as the general recommends in here, without a draft?
ROMNEY: Well, I’m recommending that we add 100,000 active- duty personnel to our military. We’re right now at about 1.5 million. Take that up to about 1.6 million.
We found in our state that we were losing enrollees for the National Guard at about 6 percent per year. And the legislature and I got together and passed something called the Welcome Home Bill. We said, you know what; if you’ll sign up for the National Guard, we’ll pay for your entire education for four years.
We put in some other benefits as well – life insurance and other features that we decided to pay for. And the result of that was, the next year enrollments went up 30 percent. And so if we want more people to sign up for the military, we have to improve the deal.
And frankly, our GI Bill has gotten a little old. We need to update our funding level for that, so that young people who go into the military get a full ride as they come home and get to go into college.
STEVE: So the answer is more spending. Is anyone else getting dizzy?
RUSSERT: The Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll today, the highest percentage ever of Americans – six in 10 – said that the removal of Saddam Hussein from power was not worth the price we have paid in blood and treasure. Every Democratic – (applause) – excuse me. Excuse me, please. The Democratic nominee will go to the country and say the war in Iraq is a bad idea not worth the price in blood and treasure, and we should get out.
Will you go to the country, Senator McCain, and say the war was a good idea worth the price in blood and treasure, and we will stay?
McCAIN: It was worth getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He had used weapons of mass destruction, and it’s clear that he was hell-bent on acquiring them.
STEVE: So am I, but you’re not about to invade my apartment.
STEVE: Are you?
STEVE: It’s quiet in here. Too quiet.
GIULIANI: It’s very, very interesting the way you put that question is with a poll, because when the polls were six and seven out of 10 Americans thinking it was a good idea, Hillary Clinton was in favor of the war. And now when the polls are six out of 10 are against, Hillary Clinton is against the war.
STEVE: That’s called democracy!
PAUL: It was a very bad idea, and it wasn’t worth it. (Cheers, applause.) al-Qaeda wasn’t there then; they’re there now. There were no weapons of mass destruction. Had nothing to do with 9/11. There was no aggression. This decision on policy was made in 1998 under the previous administration because they called for the removal of Saddam Hussein. It wasn’t worth it, and it’s a sad story because we started that war and we should never be a country that starts war needlessly.
HUCKABEE: I supported the president when he led us into this, as did the Democrats. And I think we owe him not a lot of scorn; we owe him our thanks that he had the courage to recognize there was a potential of weapons of mass destruction, and whether than wait until we had another attack, he went and made sure that it wasn’t going to happen from Saddam Hussein.
Now, everybody can look back and say, oh, well, we didn’t find the weapons. It doesn’t mean they weren’t there. Just because you didn’t find every Easter egg didn’t mean that it wasn’t planted.
STEVE: Just like fossil bones. It doesn’t mean we come from apes.
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ROMNEY: It was the right decision to go into Iraq. It was not well managed after the takedown of Saddam Hussein and his military. We were undermanaged, underprepared, underplanned, understaffed . . .
STEVE: But aside from that . . .
ROMNEY: And perhaps most importantly, it’s making sure that al-Qaeda and no other group like them is becoming a superpower.
STEVE: Please, England isn’t even a superpower.
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WILLIAMS: We are going to begin the second segment of tonight’s debate, where the candidates can ask the fellow candidate of their choice a question.
ROMNEY: How are we going to make sure that we compete with China, and I’m going to address this to Mayor Giuliani.
GIULIANI: I think we have to look at the rise of China as a wonderful opportunity. I see 20 or 30 million people coming out of poverty in China every year. To me, that’s 20 or 30 million more customers for the United States. That’s 20 or 30 million more people we can be selling things to.
STEVE: Maybe we should lift Americans out of poverty and sell stuff to them.
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McCAIN: Governor Huckabee, you have been one of the strongest and most persuasive proponents of the so-called Fair Tax. How do you answer the criticism that a flat-out sales tax wouldn’t cause lower-income Americans more of the pain and the burden of running our government and paying for its operations?
HUCKABEE: A lot of people have never read the entire Fair Tax because when I first heard about the Fair Tax, the consumption tax, quite frankly it sounds like it would be oppressive and regressive to the poor.
The poor come out best of all because of the provision in the Fair Tax called the prebate in which every American, each month, is given the amount of the Fair Tax back up to the level of poverty. Everybody gets it, not just those under the level of poverty.
STEVE: Okay, wait. So we’re all going to get a check from the government? Who is going to issue this check seeing as how he wants to abolish the IRS? And even those not under the level of poverty will be brought to the poverty line?
No wonder a lot of people haven’t read the entire proposal.
HUCKABEE: No more underground economy. Drug dealers, prostitutes, pimps, gamblers, non-Republicans – all of those people out there will be paying taxes.
STEVE: Hey, that hurts!
STEVE: Is that code for blacks and Jews?
PAUL: [My question] has to do with the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets.
STEVE: Is this about the Jews?
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HUCKABEE: Do you support the assault weapon ban?
ROMNEY: I, like the president, would have signed the assault weapon ban that came to his desk. We signed that in Massachusetts, and I said would support that at the federal level, just as the president said he would. It did not pass at the federal level.
I do not support any new legislation of an assault weapon ban nature, including that against semiautomatic weapons.
STEVE: I am both for and against answering this question.
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GIULIANI: Do you have a position on the national catastrophic fund?
STEVE: Actually, I’ve got several.
ROMNEY: The answer is yes, I do support some kind of national catastrophic effort.
STEVE: Take my campaign, for example.
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WILLIAMS: Mayor Giuliani. Say what you will about polls and their accuracy these days, our latest NBC News-Wall Street Journal poll shows you having gone, in the space of 10 months, from a positive rating of 58 percent to your current low of 29 percent today. And if you cast aside the polls, your last three finishes have been sixth, fourth and sixth. What has happened to your campaign?
STEVE: The Jews?
WILLIAMS: Senator McCain, your mother Roberta said that the Republican party is going to have to “hold its nose” and pick you, her son, as the nominee.
STEVE: And then she announced she’ll vote for Hillary in the general.
McCAIN: I’m proud to be a conservative.
STEVE: Tonight.
RUSSERT: Governor Romney, as has become apparent over the last few weeks, if Hillary Clinton is the Democratic nominee, she’ll be running as a team with her husband. Specifically, how would you run against Hillary and Bill Clinton in November? (Laughter.)
ROMNEY: I frankly can’t wait, because the idea of Bill Clinton back in the White House with nothing to do is something I just can’t imagine.
STEVE: Oh I can. Now, what about that Fair Tax thing again?
RUSSERT: What does that mean?
ROMNEY: I just think that we want to have a president, not a team of husband and wife thinking that they’re going to run the country.
STEVE: Like Nancy Reagan’s astrology charts, that was a disaster. Or Condi’s husband, George. Gawd, look how that’s turned out.
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ROMNEY: [Hillary] is so out of step with the American people. Her health care plan, quite simply, is one which says, look, we’re going to give health insurance to everybody by the government.
STEVE: If only . . .
ROMNEY: The last thing America needs is sending the Clintons back to Washington. Look, sending the same people back to Washington expecting a different result is not going to get America on track, and I’m going to make sure that we strengthen this country and we do it the old-fashioned Republican way – the Ronald Reagan way of pulling together economic conservatives, social conservatives and foreign policy/national defense conservatives. I speak to those three groups. I will pull them together. That’s how we’ll win the election, and that’s also how we’re going to keep the country strong and vibrant.
STEVE: Did an Obama speech accidentally get put in the TelePrompter?
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RUSSERT: People observing this race in Florida have been somewhat amazed by the number of television ads you’ve been running. How much of your own money have you spent on this race so far?
ROMNEY: We’ll report that on the 31st of January as required by law, and probably not a minute earlier. You’ll just have to wait, Tim.
RUSSERT: But why not tell the voters of Florida and across the country how much of your own wealth you’re spending so they can make a judgment and factor that into their decision?
ROMNEY: Well, I’m not concerned about the voters.
STEVE: Did he just say that
ROMNEY: I’m much more concerned about the other guys on this stage.
STEVE: He did.
ROMNEY: And we have some competitive information we make sure that we use for our own benefit.
STEVE: Like the PIN for my ATM card.
WILLIAMS: Governor, we’ve got an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll coming out in the morning that says, among a lot of other things, 44 percent of respondents say a Mormon president would have a difficult time uniting the country. And I know you’ve answered similar questions about what you were able to do with the Catholic vote in Massachusetts, but 44 percent nationally writ large is a large number.
ROMNEY: You know, I just don’t believe that people in this country are going to choose their candidate based on which church he or she goes to.
STEVE: As long as it’s Christian. And not the one Barack goes to.
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RUSSERT: Are you still in favor of abolishing Social Security?
PAUL: Yes, but not overnight.
STEVE: Maybe a week to 10 days. That’s business days, Tim.
RUSSERT: What will you do specifically to save Social Security?
HUCKABEE: I’m going to address that but I want to first comment on Mitt’s decision on putting an extraordinary amount of money in the campaign.
First of all, let me say, you’ve got five exceptional sons I know you’re very proud of. And you said you wanted them to inherit a great country, and I have a solution, Mitt, that I think will work. If the country will elect me president, they’ll inherit a great country. And your boys will still get your money, too, and I think that would be a great answer. So I want to offer that as a solution tonight for inheritance.
STEVE: Okay, Huckabee’s act has officially gotten old.
HUCKABEE: One of the reasons I’m a strong supporter of the Fair Tax is that you suddenly have a different funding stream for Social Security.
RUSSERT: But if you don’t have a Fair Tax, which is highly unlikely, with . . .
HUCKABEE: Well, you know, everybody keeps talking about how unlikely it is. It was unlikely that we’d go to the moon.
STEVE: But more realistic than abolishing the IRS.
HUCKABEE: I just want to say everybody talks about how unlikely these things are. That’s what’s wrong in America. We’re always talking about what we can’t do.
STEVE: We can’t even beat Iraq in a war!
RUSSERT: Governor Romney, you are a big fan of Ronald Reagan. Will you do for Social Security what Ronald Reagan did in 1983?
ROMNEY: I’m not going to raise taxes.
RUSSERT: Well, Ronald Reagan raised the payroll tax, and he also raised the retirement age, and he saved Social Security with Alan Greenspan and Tip O’Neill and Bob Dole and Pat Moynihan.
STEVE: By screwing working people. That sounds like something Romney would do.
ROMNEY: No, I don’t want to raise taxes. I’ve pointed out that of the four ways to solve the shortfall in Social Security, the worst idea is to raise taxes on the American people, because it has a double whammy.
STEVE: Mmm, double whammy . . .
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TASH: Mayor Giuliani, this question to you comes from Marshall Brennan of St. Petersburg.
“Your immigration plan calls for all immigrants to learn English to gain citizenship. So why is your campaign airing an ad in Spanish?” (Laughter.)
STEVE: This Brennan guy is stealing our material.
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WILLIAMS: Mayor Giuliani, we’re going to begin with you. In tomorrow morning’s editions of The New York Times, they are out with their endorsements in the New York primary: Senator Clinton on the Democratic side, Senator McCain on the Republican side. In tonight’s lead editorial, they say, quote, “The real Mr. Giuliani, who many New Yorkers came to know and mistrust, is a narrow, obsessively secretive, vindictive man. His arrogance and bad judgment are breathtaking.”
How can you defend against that in your hometown paper?
STEVE: I read the Post.
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WILLIAMS: Governor Romney, since we’ve been on the air tonight, one of the other campaigns has faxed us with a charge about you that you’ve heard before, that Governor Romney, quote, “changes positions with the wind.”
One of your own advisers admits the perception among all of the candidates on stage is that you have changed over time your positions, that you haven’t paid your dues. The New York Times yesterday called you the most disliked of the five. Your defense in all that?
STEVE: I read the Post.
ROMNEY: I’m not going to Washington to make friends with politicians.
STEVE: Or voters.
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WILLIAMS: Governor Huckabee, a Bush administration official said that your use of faith in your campaign gave him a “queasy feeling.” Your response?
STEVE: That’s God smiting him.
HUCKABEE: I would say that would be his problem, not mine. My faith does not give me a queasy feeling; it gives me a solid core from which I’m able to live every day.
STEVE: That’s what snake-handling can do for you.
HUCKABEE: Most Americans believe in God. As I’ve often said, if you want a president that doesn’t, you’ll have to pick somebody else.
STEVE: But Mike Gravel isn’t in the race anymore.
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Beachwood Analysis
Huckabee was smooth and had a good, clever night. McCain is emerging as the safe choice. Romney is still a bit slippery and Giuliani has lost his mojo. Given all that, it’s a win for McCain. It looks like conservatives are going to have to hold their nose, but I wouldn’t count Huckabee out.
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Posted on January 25, 2008